Episode 47: From Scotland to Silicon Valley: The Mindful Path of Tethered with Karen Kerr

Narrator:

Welcome to 9 0 9 Exec, your source for wit and wisdom and cybersecurity and beyond. On this podcast, your host, veteran chief security officer and cyber aficionado. Den Jones taps his vast network to bring you guests, stories, opinions, predictions and analysis you won't get anywhere else. Join us for 9 0 9 exec, episode 47 with Karen Kerr.

Den:

Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of 9 0 9 Exec, your podcast for executives in tech and hopefully inspiring and leading and helping your journey. And every week we have an exciting guest on the show. In this time we're going a little bit more international than my normal one. So we have got the co-founder of an amazing application that we're going to dig into, Karen Kerr all the way from Scotland, although right now you're traveling with your partner in crime, Greame, you guys are in San Francisco for tech week, now you're in LA for its tech week, and I got a catch up with Greame last week. Outstanding guy. You guys are doing something fantastic. So why don't you introduce yourself and we'll dig into it.

Karen:

Perfect. Thanks Den. I am Karen and I'm co-founder of Tethered, which is a mindfulness app inspired by Scotland. The premise behind it is that we use place and heritage and belonging as a connection that helps us really tap into something that is already in us. I think sometimes when we talk about mindfulness, it's quite an innate thing and intangible, and some people think that it's not accessible and that's something that we are trying to change. So It's about using, I think sometimes we expect other people to have the imagination to put themselves into a visualization situation, and I think that's where the disconnect happens sometimes. So by tethering to something real, it makes the practice almost instantly more connectable and being able to tap into something, that kind of feeling of home, that comfort feeling that you're kind of looking for if you're in a spiral of anxiety, for example, or stress or just relaxation, something that makes you able to switch off, which we're not very good at. And that's something that we are trying to bring to a wider audience essentially.

Den:

Awesome. And yeah, I downloaded the app and I played about with it, so we will dig into that shortly. Now, a female founder, but your background, it is pretty cool because this isn't the first adventure where you've said, oh, I'm going to start doing something. Right. So why don't we talk about, why don't your journey just a little bit. So Karen, so you're based in Scotland, born and bred. I can tell you've got the accent. It's a little bit better than mine. I've been in the US 25 years, so mine's all shit now. I mean, it's great. So when you were growing up, what did you envision doing for the career? And then can you share just a little bit about your journey before tethered?

Karen:

Yeah, absolutely. So I was always creative. I knew my journey would be in something creative. I didn't know what it was going to be. I started off with aspirations to be a jewelry designer, and my parents at the time were like, that's a hobby sweetheart, so you need to think of something that potentially is going to help support you first and then delve into that. So there was always trying to work out what route that creativity would take. Over the years, it's taken many guises. So from high school I applied to art school and didn't get in. So that was the first sort of hurdle where I met the tenacity of going, right, someone's told me I can't do this now I have to do this. And so I then kind of circumnavigated the art school route, did college first, which was amazing because actually what college did was the practical tools. I learned the software, I learned the programs, and then I went to art school after that. And Then what that allowed me to do was really hit the ground running. When I came out with my bachelor of design, I was then armed with the conceptual work that art skill taught me, but also the practical, let's get into the work environment and actually do something because it was really quite a fast-paced industry and you really had to learn quickly. So I worked my way through the creative ranks from executive team maker up to head of design. There was a very clear path within the design industry. And so in 2010 I was made redundant

And actually it was the best thing that ever happened because I probably wouldn't have walked away from a salary. But being able to be solely in control of the creative output for the first time, choosing my clients, choosing what kind of industries I wanted to work in, gave me that freedom. It also allowed me to start my family as well. And the flexibility around that. The industry in Scotland with the creative industry, we didn't have job share or part-time, that just wasn't a thing. So it was either all or nothing. So you had to, it wasn't something that was that flexible and freelancing was a bit daunting. Feast or famine,

You don't know what's coming next. And I guess that's where the start of the train of entrepreneur journey was. I then became more than just the creative. I then had to be the project manager. I had to be sales, I had to be admin, I had to be everything within that. And actually the creativity went further and further back in the process. So the great thing with that was it allowed me to explore what sparked my creativity. And so I went in and out of different sizes of agencies and tried to see where my fit was, and I very quickly landed on branding as my main strength. I love the process of starting with a blank piece of paper and actually again, talking about imagination, being able to draw that out of people, out of business owners who they've got this amazing idea and very quickly they just put something out there. Actually, the legwork by doing the foundation first of the branding is so important because it's the face, it's what you're protecting and putting out there. And as consumers, we buy with emotion, we buy with that gut instinct of whether this company is right for me or not. So that's kind of what I dealt with throughout my career with forging personalities. And then unfortunately when I was talking about that flexibility, my mom developed dementia and Alzheimer's,

And that was a really tough period because I was her go-to person. I'm an only child as well, so I was the one that was able to help calm her down and talk her down. So I guess the mindfulness journey from there started with caring for my mom and trying to help her navigate this horrible, horrible disease that just takes people away from you right in front of you. My dad was our primary carer as well, so we are a really small family, just the three of us. So that became part and parcel of my role. And actually I really struggled with the creative side of my life then. It was almost like writer's block.

I didn't have an avenue to put my creativity. And then sadly, I lost my dad, which meant my mom's carer had gone. And that's what started me on the journey. I really struggled with my own mental health and I wanted to take a little bit more control of that while I was still trying to live a professional life, a family life, be a daughter to someone who was struggling to remember who I was. It was a really, really time. And over the years, Graham and I had done quite a few different businesses. So I'm branding and Graham's digital, so it was the perfect marriage in all senses. So he had a creative agency, a digital agency that was developing websites and doing digital transformation, and then he got headhunted for a bigger role, but we had employees. So we're thinking, well, what do we do? So actually what I did is I went in and started running that business

To allow him the freedom to go and follow the next step in his career. That was part of the economic downturn and we really, really struggled through that and unfortunately had to close that business. But what it meant was we go, right, well what's the next thing? What did we do next? Graham had grown up all around the world and one thing that he had always connected to was back home. So he lived in Dubai and Saudi and all over the place, and the one thing that he kept coming back to was Scotland. And so we developed a business called Scot's of the World, and the idea with this was to connect Scot's wherever they were in the world with things and comfort of back home, be that product, be that content or just people building the community. And so during COVID, that evolved into a marketplace. So essentially selling Scottish products from small independent makers who had completely lost their footfall, but unfortunately during COVID, nobody was spending anything. So it became a bit of a passion project while we were still trying to do the day job as such, and the support was needed by the makers, but we just didn't have the framework or the spending capacity to really get to who needed it.

Den:

And it pretty, you've hit a few things there. One that I'd love to come back to before I do, we'll take a short break for a quick message back in a minute, folks. Hey folks, just want to take a minute to say thanks for listening to the show, watching the show, however you engage with us. If you're liking the conversations, if you think we're adding some value, we'd love you to subscribe and share the show with your friends. If you know of anyone else that would benefit ideally for us that will help us be able to grow the show, invest more in the quality, get some more exciting guests, and keep bringing you some executive goodness. Thanks everybody. Take it easy and enjoy the rest of the discussion. So yeah, so one thing I'd love to come back to, Karen, and you mentioned this and it's funny, growing up in Scotland myself when you said, I'd like to be a jewelry designer, and your parents are like, ha, no, get a real job, right?

Karen:

Yeah.

Den:

It's interesting for me because as a parent myself now I think of it, you've got a couple of responses when your child says, I want to do blah, and the first thing that I recognized when I was a kid was my parents were both, they split up when I was 14. So for me, my dad's response was one thing, and my mom's was a totally different thing. So my dad was also a bit of an older generation. He was 10 years older than my mom, so I was a postman at the time, and I went to leave that to go to college to do it. And my dad thought I was stupid for giving up a job for life,

But that was his generation. That was what they kind of knew. I was also a musician and when I bought a bit of music gear, which my mom supported buying the music, getting the loan for the music gear instead of buying a car, my father's response was totally different than my mother's response. I mean, she was supportive. And I kind of look at it, we don't always understand their kids' choices and we don't always understand their generation or what they're up against. So I always try and think of, well, how do I be supportive of it? And it seems to me like your desire to do art and creative, it was the same kind of struggle or response from your parents.

Karen:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my dad was in the steel industry and had been made redundant from Ravens Creek in Scotland. So that was a massive thing culturally for him. And I think they started to realize because exactly what you've just said, he assumed that was a job for life. And I think what happened was they started that process of realizing that maybe I didn't need to rely on someone else to give me the job, because before that it was always larger companies and then they took you in and then they nurtured you through the journey. And I think we've seen in recent years, even the creative industry have had to change with how we work remotely as well. Before it was bums on seats, you have to be in the studio to see productivity, and I think managers and things have had to change just with the fact that they had no other option. So yeah, there was different levels of encouragement. They wanted me to pursue something creatively because they could see that was a passion and that was the one thing they always said, as long as you're enjoying what you're doing, you will be successful at that, or something in that vein.

So there was a lot of support, but also a fear that I would struggle continually and have to keep restarting because it wouldn't be a job for life.

Den:

And I think that's the thing, as we've evolved as a society, then I think we've recognized that working is not what it used to be. And even during COVID, so many people I knew during COVID, they kind of woke up and realized, wait a minute, there's more to life than just working

Karen:

That

Den:

Whole. Yeah, I certainly drank enough during COVID. My friends were around and we had our own little pod and my two best friends and we would just be eating and drinking and playing music, and that was probably not healthy. After two years of doing that fun though,

Karen:

I think we reconnected quite a lot in that time with what was important.

Den:

And I think so too, and I'd love to. And now talking about the connection business, it is interesting for me being a Scotts guy now, I downloaded the apps. I want to talk a little bit about tethered, right?

Karen:

Yeah.

Den:

But before I actually, so I downloaded the app, I've got a couple of sessions in, and I think it's brilliant and we'll talk about that in a minute. So sorry for your loss with your parents. I mean, it's a hard thing to go through a debilitating illness that then really challenges your emotional strength. You mentioned about some of the thought behind tethered really brings you back to going through those life journeys, right?

Karen:

Yeah, absolutely.

Den:

You want to share, you and Graham are sitting there one night having a drink probably when all the good ideas turn up for some people or the bad ones for others. But you guys are sitting there thinking, we're going to do something. Now, his situation, I'm guessing at that time he was in his full-time position and then you're winding down Scots of the world and now you're sitting there thinking, right, what's next? So what really drove the idea to get into mindfulness and build an app like this, a lot of apps, right? Yep, absolutely. So why now? What would be thought behind all that?

Karen:

I think the pivotal moment was I went for grief counseling, which mental health is still quite a stigma in Scotland, domestically back home, we don't talk about emotions, nobody discusses it more. So men in particular we're really bad crisis,

But I knew I needed to do something. I was in a dark place. Having lost both of them, I realized very quickly that when my dad had died, I went straight into care mode for my mom. And so I didn't process any grief for him at all. It was just all shoved down, which is what we're quite used to doing. And I didn't listen to my body, I didn't listen to. And what we do is we wait until we physically can't do anything anymore before we start to listen to the warning signals that we already had. There was millions of red flags for me. I knew I was struggling, so I actually went for grief counseling. And what that did was, it was amazing while I was in the session, but I've opened up and I've opened this can of worms in the session, which is an hour long. And then I've gone home with all of that noise and all of the additional questions that come from that. And what I really struggled with most, and I think being an only child as well, this wasn't a shared experience.

I couldn't talk to anyone else about it because there was no one else left who knew me as a child, for example. And that was where the connection thing came in. I was yearning something that connected me back, connected me back to my foundations, and that wasn't there anymore. So as part of that, there was cognitive behavioral therapy alongside my therapy sessions, and that's where I was introduced to mindfulness. So what I did is I looked at the mainstream apps, cam and Headspace, we've all tried them, but my biggest problem and that the industry's biggest problem is connection. I just couldn't connect to it. I'm going to guess, many of your listeners have one of the mainstream apps in this space on their phone, but they just don't use it. The retention numbers are shocking within the industry and a 30 day retention as an average, the industry only retains 24% of people. So their churn is every single month going through this. And I was thinking, there must be something I can do to address that. And so I had recorded meditations just for myself. No one else was supposed to listen to them.

Karen:

It was

Karen:

Supposed to be personal for me just so that I could connect to something. And then I had shared them with friends and a lot of my female friends were at a certain age in our lives where our hormones were changing. We were also living with our teenage kids whose hormones were changing at the same time. And along with that came insomnia and anxiety, imposter syndrome, all of this confidence that we'd built up in professional careers comes sort of crashing at you, especially when you're in personal crisis as well. So I was like, I need something that I can take control of. And so I'd shared the meditations, and from there the feedback was just like, we need this. You need to do something with this. So we were sitting with the Scots of the world audience and they were really engaged because there's such an affinity for Scotland.

You don't have to have Scottish heritage, but Outlander had kicked in and there was a massive wave of this romanticized vision and the natural serenity of Scotland. There's something about standing in the middle of a glen with a gale horse wind in your face and no other sound that you can't, there's no room to actually for your own noise. There's something about it. So I thought maybe that's the connection that we're missing. And so that's when I started to explore using Scotland or culture actually as this foundation, what we plan to do to grow it. We're using culture as the foundation for us connecting to mindful practice.

Den:

And one thing, I think I read it somewhere is your audience, you've got a huge audience in the US market.

Karen:

Yeah, 95% of our all customers that we have currently are American. Yeah.

Den:

Wow. And it's interesting for me because first of all, I do recall some stats about our accent being one of the sexiest accents in the world. So I think that's good. I think people, when they hear us speak regardless of what we say, sometimes they give it a level of credibility because there's a level of, I dunno, I don't know if it's a confidence for me personally, I mean I'm a confident guy to begin with and I'm also a bit of an extrovert. So for me, I'm delighted to jump on a stage and going to a presentation,

Karen:

But

Den:

When I was listening to the app and the voice in the app, I think there's a level of just calmness. But I also think there's almost, there is that comfort thing for me because I'm Scottish, but most of my us friends, and you're right about the Outlander stuff, but whether it was even Braveheart or Outlander or even Train Sporting, I've got friends that are just like, that's a cult movie. So I kind of look at it, there's a lot of people around the world, but for different reasons really love the Scottish culture, the Scottish people, the Scottish accent. So I think for me, it is great that you guys are kind of really bringing that into the journey.

Karen:

I think there's a raw honesty about Scottish people and we are very welcoming. We will, there's a saying, you'll get a piece of MD's Door talking about the fact that you could turn up at a stranger and ask for something and be fed and watered and looked after. And I think there's a natural cadence as well. We're quite lyrical in the way that we talk. And so there's a natural lullaby, almost essence of it where it is. And that definitely lends itself to the sleep content and just that settling nature.

Den:

Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking of that. I mean, we do have a great accent, but there are parts of Scotland and generations in Scotland these days where I just don't even want to listen to their voice. We get that quite often. Teenagers in Livingston, I don't know if I want to listen to their adult tone.

Karen:

Yeah, we're not recording it in our gal street the Friday night, that's for sure.

Den:

I know, right. Funnily enough though, we do have a great political tone, and interestingly enough, I am a huge fan of standup comedy, so for me, like Billy Connolly's one of our greatest ones, but then I just saw Craig Ferguson the weekend there and then I'm going to go see the Palace

Karen:

Pos. Yeah,

Den:

Yeah, very nice part of the city actually in San Francisco. And funnily enough, I'm going to see Kevin Bridges there on Wednesday as well.

Karen:

Yes, I saw he's playing.

Den:

Yeah, I'm excited for that now. I actually think humor is a huge part of mindfulness. I think it's a huge piece of the puzzle. When you guys were founding the company, what was one of the biggest challenges? I mean, I've been a contractor in Scotland, but I've never like a loan contractor, but I've never really started a company in Scotland. So what was one of the challenges and how did you overcome that? And then as you embarked into the US what was a challenge that you've had to overcome there?

Karen:

Yeah, I mean I think for us it was almost reversed. We found it easier to talk to the US arms of a lot of associations and corporations that are Scotland centric.

Den:

We

Karen:

Found it easier to talk to the American arm of those than it was to talk to the domestic Scottish government visit Scotland. All of those big entities are so focused on outside in and we were like, we want to take the insight. We want to take Scotland wider. And I think there's scope for that. I think the fact that the mindfulness market is huge. So we were aware that we can't just launch another mindfulness app because we're not going to disrupt anything like that. We can't, as two people from Scotland can't challenge your Headspace and your CAM and insight timer and all of those massive companies. So our point of difference is really this connection and we found it very easy to sell. The minute someone listens to it or hears it, they get it because tried to pinpoint what is it that is making the difference. And it's actually really difficult to put into words, but there is just something about it that is resonating. I talked about retention earlier. Our retention is 84%. We are disrupt. There's something inherently wrong with the mindfulness industry and I think it doesn't feel accessible.

Karen:

It

Karen:

Doesn't feel personalized. It doesn't feel like it's specifically talking to me. And I think people think they don't have time for it either. And that's one of the biggest things that I've learned throughout it is that mindfulness is a practice you have to practice, but also it weaves itself into your day.

Karen:

It's

Karen:

Not a case of you have to allocate 30 minutes to sit quietly with your eyes shut with no noise. It just doesn't work like that. So it's as simple as a breathing exercise while you're waiting on your coffee or while you're waiting on the subway, or there's things that we can do if we are aware of the tools that we can weave it into our day to enhance our day to enhance our longevity. Talking about Alzheimer's and dementia, that's a massive industry that's coming through right now is the longevity of we're all working longer, we're all living longer. How do we protect that? I guess there was an element of me as well from the personal side of it, losing my generational family was the storytellers. And so we're losing the older generation who have the stories and that narrative that we're protecting the provenance of something that is so magical as well. I think that is something that is resonating beyond what's already in the market, that's making people sit up and pay attention, but also the natural inherent beauty of Scotland. There's already that feeling there about Scotland. And so we are just layering on top of that and learning about the culture and the history as well. It's where our history goes back centuries.

Den:

So coming back to the building and forming of the company, it's legally is simple to form a company in Scotland as it is anywhere else. We do a limited liability you guys to something that's something similar. But what was interesting, I think that you guys kind of explored was you have something that you're trying to build in Scotland, but really the market easier to penetrate is the export market like the US or I'm going to say there's two types of customer. You've got Scottish people who are living and traveling abroad, but then you've also got people who are not born and bred in Scotland, but either they have that in their heritage

Karen:

Or

Den:

They have romanticized about it because they've fallen in love with Braveheart or Outlander or something of that nature, right? Absolutely. Just gravitate by the way, I meet so many us people, either they tell me their heritage is Scottish and they're like, I'm half Scottish, and then the name has six halves and they're half not good at math. And then, or they visited and they were like, oh, it was just there. And people that went for the Edinburgh festival or the military tattoo or go around the highlands and stuff. I mean, yeah, everybody I speak to loves it.

Karen:

We've had an older generation come to us and say, I've always wanted to visit because either from a heritage point, generations came from Scotland to America, we liked to travel where we all left Scotland and went far and white. And we've had people say to us that they're at a stage in their life where they now know they will not travel to Scotland, they cannot travel, but we've taken them there

Karen:

And

Karen:

They've been able to experience it through the app. And for me that's magic

Karen:

Because

Karen:

It is a very immersive experience and that's what I want people to get from it. And you're right, people will come for mindfulness and we get to expose them to Scotland and what that can do. There's a natural grounding presence in Scotland and I want to take that foundation and build on that to explore culture and explore identity and do it for multiple cultures as well. We're not going to stop with Scotland.

Den:

And that concept is interesting. So we'll get to there in a minute on the strategy, growth, vision part of my questions, so I downloaded the app, I set up an account, super simple to download, super simple to set up the account, very basic information so you're not asking for the name of your firstborn kid and shit like that. You're keeping it nice and simple, which for me from a security perspective is great, but also from the experience perspective, I think simple is always better. And then the thing that was interesting to me was you, you're capturing almost like a daily, Hey, this is how your journey's going. I think mindfulness is a bit of a discipline as well. You need to be a little bit disciplined, you need to set some time. But what I thought was cool was you guys had little sessions in there that were just a few minutes all the way to an hour. I didn't think I saw one that was longer than an hour, but I was pretty pleased to see that there is just a few minutes because sometimes in your day, like you said earlier, you don't have all the time in the world, so do you want to share mindful

Karen:

Moments and that Exactly that. And I think particularly when I was navigating the time where I was struggling most, I was still in corporate world of trying to deal with clients and deliver projects and deadlines and you don't have time to set aside a quiet moment. That's a luxury. And I think what I wanted to do was five minutes before that big meeting, how can I reset? How can I give myself a productivity boost, a focus boost? How can I get my confidence up if I'm feeling that all these personal struggles that, let's face it probably people don't know you're dealing with, how can I give myself that little nugget, like you said, that little sample of something that can just reaffirm that I've got this, I can do this. And it is very much sometimes when you're in crisis like that, particularly mental health, it's like getting through the next minute. I don't have a plan for the next five or hour or day. So I wanted there to be some quick relief stuff in there that you can tap into privately in your own headphones. It's in your pocket constantly. So if you've got a big meeting, it's on your commute, that sort of thing. I wanted it to be accessible.

Den:

And I think the one thing is executives, first of all, they don't always have someone to talk to. They don't always have, I always say, can be

Karen:

A lonely place.

Den:

It can be very lonely, especially like founder CEOs and my CEO, EO friends and I, we talk now and again and the number of times I hear people saying it's a lonely job, even though you could get all your CEO EO friends together and share, and there are some communities for that, but I think something like this is great because you can sit, and I'd done this yesterday, I just sat at the back garden, the sun's going down and I'm headphones in and I'm just going through some of the sessions and the journaling stuff was really good. The mindful minutes I thought was great. And I think the reality is leveraging something where maybe you've got a level of anxiety before a huge meeting. Maybe you're doing a board presentation, maybe you're whatever. These are just all great tools in your toolkit. And I even think if you're a company and you're sitting there with your executives, it's like this is something that's really good for your medical part of your medical plan or your medical toolkit you

Karen:

Think. And I think there's a switch happening in the employees are asking about that as part of a package, the mental health plan, what are you going to do to support me so that I can turn up as my best version so that I can be productive? And we don't have burnout and absenteeism. There's a massive culture of that. And I think what we can do is offer something that can maybe help handhold through that early stages. It's not a clinical replacement for depression, for example, but I think it's having the tools that you can identify the patterns in your life that maybe when you're having a negative spiral. Hang on a minute, let me jump on this and being able to do that. Yeah,

Den:

Yeah. Now looking back. So first of all, so when did Tether start? It seems like May 23. So you had a few years old here.

Karen:

Yeah, we launched the app and we've just passed our first birthday of the launch of the app.

But before that was we had to have the content to launch with, so that was me. So I'm the voice of tethered as well. So it was me creating the content, recording the content, and then making sure that the quality like you suggested was good, because that's something that we need that resonance. We need that quality to be able to not be thinking about a crackle or something happening. It has to be a peaceful space. So there was a lot of behind the scenes work and launching a minimal viable product to make sure that we had market fit, which we actually managed to get really quickly and that the audience were asking us to add features and make it do this and can you get this? And so very quickly the audience were the ones that were telling us I need it to do this. And sleep was a massive, massive section that we've grown purely down to customer feedback of saying, I can't sleep. It's a massive problem, and if you think about sleep, it impacts everything else

Karen:

Throughout

Karen:

Your day. And so that's something that we've looked to concentrate on recently and grow out more. Really important.

Den:

Yeah, that is cool. And when I was going through it, it seems like you've got a whole, I'm going to say a broader set of categories in the sense of there's sleep, there's journaling, there's different situations in life where you've been filling those out as well. What would you say?

Karen:

We also have one that people don't think about, and we have our granny's cookbook.

Den:

Oh, really? I

Karen:

Never saw that.

Karen:

Yeah, there's a recipe section that we've built out with Scottish recipes, and they're all audio recordings of the recipes so that you can guide you through making a meal with mindfulness at the center of it. So that doesn't have to be a rushed through process of sustenance

Den:

Culture. You've got a culture section here. I'm like, oh, this is good. Oh yeah, wild garlic and potato sip.

Karen:

I

Den:

Might check that out. And then so what would you regard as the most significant win over the last year then? So of the things that you guys are most proud of from a milestone, what would that be?

Karen:

I think us being able to get that retention mark when the industry standard is so low and converting from trial to paid where it's 72% of everybody that tries it

Karen:

Then

Karen:

Ends up with a subscription, so we can keep that momentum going. That's the biggest win for me is that it is really naturally resonating with people and they're running with it, which is amazing for me.

Den:

That's great. So the future, what do you see in three years from now?

Karen:

Yeah, so at the moment we bootstrapped, up until this point, we have had small personal investors come in, but we're at the point of looking for angel investors at this stage. What we want to do is capitalize on the momentum that we've got so far. We want to grow that audience in the states, almost a state by state, because we can identify pockets of Scottish heritage and Scottish influence and affinity, but really it's a global product. So it's the mission's to get it in as many hands as possible. And I think it's kind of exposure as well of letting people know what we're doing and actually identifying that. Quite a lot of people don't know they need it yet.

Karen:

And so

Karen:

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. And over the next year we're going to introduce Tether to Ireland, which is the next, so we're using these multi niches, we're call 'em multiplier niches. And so what we're doing is we're taking the foundation of Scotland and then applying that to a different culture. And actually there's no limit to which culture we could apply it to

Karen:

Because

Karen:

What we're doing is unearthing the stories and the narrative of that culture and exploring that and exposing that to a global audience.

Den:

Yeah, no, that's pretty cool. I was thinking, yeah, I mean we've got a lot of VC friends in the valley here and stuff, so I'd be curious. There's probably one Scottish rich VC sitting out there or somebody that's like, oh, this is a good thing. Because one of the things you hit the nail on actually, which is really awareness, people being aware that you exist, and I even think of that, the Scots of the world thing. It's a brilliant idea. The biggest challenge in it is just people around the world knowing that you exist, which in any company it's like even I was doing our shit nine to nine cyber. It's like, okay, I could spend a lot of money on marketing, but at the end of it, all of our business as consultants has been referrals. And I think the referral game is a big thing. So when you're measuring success, your biggest thing was retention and conversion to subscription from trial.

Karen:

And that only comes with people downloading it in the first place.

We've been in the app store for just over a year and we've got 11 and a half thousand downloads, so we're getting that traction, but it's almost, B2C is a really difficult space that's one person at a time that you have to try and convert. So what we want to do is expand that. So we're looking at corporate partners that we could strategically partnerships that we can get tethered into experiential a wider audience with our same marketing spend because then we get more bang for that marketing spend. And also, like you said, the awareness levels go up. So we're looking at the hospitality industry with hotels. If you think about you've traveled a great distance, you land in your hotel and now you're like, I must relax and enjoy myself. And so there's such a pressure to do that if it's a short stay, even if it's business travel, there's a massive market there for us helping you to get into that space. I think

Den:

The business travel one, if you could get into all the Marriots and the Hiltons and all those guys

Karen:

Or in the aviation industry as well, and looking at airports and getting you ready before you get there, that's the biggest thing, making it part of the journey. And that's essentially what mindfulness is for me. You don't complete it. It's not a tick box of that's me. I'm now mindful. Yeah,

Den:

Well, I mean it's the same thing is diet and exercise. I mean, this fits in that bucket. And here's something somebody said to me years ago. They were like, imagine I'm going to buy you a car and I'm going to say, okay, Karen, I'm going to buy you a car, but this is the only car you're going to get to have for the rest of your life. How are you going to look after that car? You're going to clean it, you're going to maintain it, you're going to do all the things. That's the only car you're going to have for the rest of your life. The interesting thing is if now we apply that to our body and ourselves, we don't treat ourselves as good as we treat that car.

Karen:

Our engine is not running at capacity and

Den:

Optimized.

Karen:

Absolutely not.

Den:

So yeah, so when you're thinking of that and you're like, holy shit, well, my emotional health,

My physical health, what I eat, how I exercise, all those things, and we all love luxuries in life, but the reality is, and I think during COVID, a lot of people realized or came to that realization or became more aware of it. And that's why I think mindfulness is really gaining steam. I mean, for me personally, I look at a couple of things. One is executives, which I would love them to be the audience of this show. This is a group of people where companies don't send them on training classes as much. So the training for the job isn't really great, and then emotional support for the job pretty sucks. The higher up you go in that ladder, the tools in your toolkit feel like this is less and less. Again, for me, I've had somebody that does Ayurveda, I've had a hypno breath coach, we're talking with you guys and mainly for me because I think an executive in your career, you're not well-rounded and you're not surviving and thriving unless these tools are in your toolkit and you're disciplined enough to take the time to do something about it.

Karen:

Yeah, I mean we're creatures of habit by nature. That is actually a positive. The hardest thing to do unfortunately is change behavior, behavioral change needs rewiring. But the great thing with meditation and mindfulness that if you practice it daily over a certain period of time, you actually start to grow new gray matter physically. We're physically making a change. I think we're so used to doing things that you can see the change, go to the gym, eat healthy diet, we take care of our skincare. People probably have a longer skincare regime than a mental health regime. That's something that we're not very good at internalizing and looking at, looking after ourselves. My mom was so good at that, she said, I remember her saying to me, you can't feed from an empty cup, darling. That's what she used to say to me all the time,

Karen:

That

Karen:

I was trying to give so much to everybody else, but I was forgetting that I was empty

Karen:

And

Karen:

I can't feed anyone else from an empty cup. And so she was like, you need to fill up your own cup first, but that people feel guilty then of spending time on them. So we're not very good at self-care. And I think that's a pivotal changing point where we can start to go, my mental health is as important, if not more important than it's the oil change. It's everything that we can put new tires on, but if the engine's not running, it's not going to be a smooth journey. I think

Den:

That's interesting. I think quite often people are so busy on the hair and makeup shit. I mean, even me, I mean, I would be more interested in making sure my hair's good and I've got a decent tan and my clothes are all great. I buy great clothes then if you're mentally ready. But then from a fitness perspective, I'd never go to the gym. I mean, still isn't my jam really. But I do go back to the whole mindfulness lifestyle, meditate, yoga. I walk a trail two or three times a week, and it's, for me, getting in nature is huge,

Karen:

Massive.

Den:

I'd rather be in nature, walk a trail than be in a gym on a treadmill.

Karen:

Well, if we think about it, what we've done is we're going against the cycles of nature that we used to be mindful,

Karen:

Inherently

Karen:

Mindful because we would work to the seasons and daylight. The minute the sun went down, you weren't working by candlelight. So we've the habits that actually were healthier

Den:

And

Karen:

We had less stuff, less pressure, less availability. So we're kind of having to go back a little bit to make sure that we keep that engine running and use all the tools that we've got for the productivity, but making sure that we're stable enough.

Den:

And I think, I wonder actually, I do think we're leaving the era of that Monday to Friday, nine till five. I certainly think we're in this position. I foresee and think of it being, especially in tech, a lot of workers being gig workers and people picking their hours and people not doing the nine to five thing. And then ideally, that opens up the kind of process or the lifestyle so that we do end up being, I'm carving some time out to do a meditation in the morning,

Karen:

But there's life guilt, guilt on that you don't feel that you should be doing something else.

Den:

And it was time

Karen:

Well spent

Den:

When now getting into the habit of the alarm goes off at seven in the morning, and the very first thing I do is I meditate for 20 minutes.

Karen:

Perfect.

Den:

And I'm basically doing a manifestation meditation

Karen:

More

Den:

Than anything else. I'm a very positive person, but I think that discipline is really what matters, right?

Karen:

Yeah. I think it's getting into the habit because what happens is it's the same as going to the gym. You have to go for so long until you start seeing the results. And that's when that sort of repetitive addiction element comes back in where you start getting the serotonin hit because you're getting the dopamine hit because you're seeing results.

Karen:

And

Karen:

I think what we do is we don't stick with things long enough to start seeing results to kind of make it habitual. And that's what we are hoping to do is that people are intrigued long enough to dip into all the different sections and all the different avenues of mindfulness that it becomes part of their practice without them really realizing that actually I'm noticing my own patterns. It's a very subjective thing as well. We all deal with things in different ways or adapt things in different ways to tell our own lifestyle. So we have to be open to being flexible in a small start, just like even you said those mindful moments. If that's what you fit in your day, it's more than you fit in yesterday.

Den:

Yeah. Well that is one thing that I know we're up on time car. I was sitting there thinking as you said that, right? One thing I say in life is, especially in the cybersecurity discipline, when I talk to the teams about the endeavors and the projects or things that we're trying to deliver to protect companies, I would say we're not shooting for perfection. We're just shooting to be better than we were last month or last week

Karen:

Or even an

Den:

Yeah. And mindfulness I think is pretty similar. So I'm going to ask you to leave some parting words of wisdom for our audience, and then you can close out the show with some magic, I guess. Magic.

Karen:

Magic. Yeah. I mean, I guess my parting wish would be that you'd give it a try. If mindfulness is something that you don't understand, explore it a little bit and find out how you can fit it into your own day. Find out what it means to you. Is it while you're waiting for your Waymo in the back of the Waymo when you don't have to think about driving? Can you have a mindful moment? You've got the availability to sit back loving Waymo. We absolutely have to get them in Scotland, but I think there's moments in your day where time is available, and I think having the shutter down to say, I don't have time for this, I don't have time for self-care, is think of all the other things that you do and you spend money on for self-care or actually physical care or care for your car or anything that we've spoken about.

But something that is for you that allows personal growth and actually can probably aid to your long-term physical health as well as your mental health. And I would say what we do is it is self-guided, but what we've tried to do is create a journey like you spoke about, and I'd love you to come on the journey with us. And we are so open to feedback. We are able to be agile. It's the two of us at the moment. We create any content. I've got a group coming from Arizona to Scotland for a retreat, and I've written content for their retreat based on where they're staying because that's what we do. It's this cultural pin and location that makes it something that you can actually reach out for. And that's where the tethered name came from was I wanted something that was physical that you could, that little thread, even if it's one single strand of something that you can hold onto that helps you in your day.

Den:

Excellent, excellent. So Karen, care, creative director and co-founder of Tether, thank you very much for being on the show. Thanks

Karen:

For your,

Den:

We'll have all the links in the show notes, and yeah, we encourage everybody to check it out. Scottish boy, myself, I checked it out and yeah, I'm excited to get on that journey. And yeah, the recipe thing, I never noticed that yesterday, but I'll be digging into that one later.

Karen:

Yeah, it's another example of how mindfulness can be part of your day.

Den:

Some Scottish home cooking, I'll tell

Karen:

You. Yeah, absolutely.

Den:

Scottish. It's not as bad as everyone says it is. It's actually

Karen:

Very, no, and there's also a chocolate haggis in there as well, so you don't have to have the real thing. There's a chocolate

Den:

And a deep fried Mars bar. Yeah, never had one. I've never had one either, but everybody talks about them. Hey, thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming on the show. It's an amazing app. I'm really excited to get into it more and be on the journey with you guys. And yeah, any of our investor friends, a great angel opportunity, so pay attention to that.

Karen:

Yes, reach out. We have investor decks ready, so if anyone's interested, I'm more than happy to send on more information. We'd love to have that conversation.

Den:

Beautiful. Thanks Kane. Take it easy and thanks for coming on the show. Take care. Bye.

Narrator:

Thanks for listening to 9 0 9 exec. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and don't miss an episode of your source for wit and Wisdom in cybersecurity and beyond.

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